You're forced to retire at 65 in France. But not for long - the French government is discussing plans to push it up to 70. Great, you might think. But the French don't. An extra five years of work means the end of social protection, they say.
Until now, French companies have been able to boot staff members out as soon as they hit their 65th birthday. But now, the government is looking at increasing the "compulsory retirement" age. If the amendment, which primarily addresses social security financing problems, is adopted, then a worker cannot be forced to leave their post until the age of 70. An attractive plan to those who don't want to start watching daytime TV and doing the gardening at 65. Not in France. The amendment is causing outcry.
Those defending the change say it's simply an option, and not at all an obligation, for the employee. But critics say it's just the beginning of a move towards longer working years. We asked our Observers what they think the plans make of retirement. While the French unionist believes the French social model is in peril, our Nigerian Observer reckons that his countrymen would be happy with any amount of retirement time, forget the five years.
Eric Auben is an executive committee member of the French union CGT (General Workers' Union). He works in the retirement area.
We're not
opposed to the ones who want to be allowed to carry on working over 65. But
there needs to be a real choice for the worker, and for the instant that's not
the case. Very few people have contributed enough to the system to retire at 65.
Firstly because of the precariousness of careers: lots of people are out of
work for long periods due to illness or unemployment. But also because people
are studying longer.
So the point is not to give workers the chance to carry on working, but to allow those who want to leave at 60 [the pension-eligible age in France] to have a full pension. The law that's being discussed at the moment would be the same for everyone, no matter how hard their labour. It has to be taken into account that in some jobs it's physically impossible to work after the age of 60. Having them labouring on just to make a decent pension is ridiculous.
The government, following European direction, wants to extend the contribution period in order to compensate for extended life expectancy. We think that other resources should be thought of to finance the system without having to make people work longer. We've got numerous ideas - for example, contributions on capital gains and stock options.
We know that people work longer in other European countries. But it's a mistake to simply compare the retirement age. For example, in Sweden they increase the working age, but they class more people as handicapped there. In Germany, the legal age is 67, but they take internship periods into account. And in France, employment amongst seniors stands at 38% - one of the worst in Europe.
What's for sure is that the French protectionist model has disappeared. The number of employed and retired poor people certainly isn't getting any smaller."
Eighty-five-year-old Raoul Bellanger, from Marseille, has been retired for 25 years
I retired
at 60 [retirement age at that point was 65] because I was ill. I'm a sufferer
from coeliac disease [gluten intolerance] and at that time they didn't know how
to treat it. I was very sick and I didn't want to die at work. The problem was
that I hadn't worked enough years for my pension, because my early work life
was in Algeria,
which didn't count. But I managed to put some things together - I had a small
vet's pension and a few other things. So finally I had enough money [€2,500 a
month].
The government's reform plans don't shock me. If people are happy working, you shouldn't force them to stop. And anyway maybe retirement age should be pushed back. There are more and more old people, and young people start working later and later. Money needs to be found somewhere. I was a sales rep and I didn't particularly like the job. But if I'd been in good health, I would have resigned myself to carry on.
I find it quite normal that those who do hard labour, breaking their back on a building site, can leave earlier. I also find it abnormal that some civil servants leave earlier than others. Some fill up their pension account by getting another job. They're taking the place of someone who needs it."
Osize Omoluabi is an economist who grew up in Nigeria and now lives in the US. He tells us about the system in both countries.
The compulsory retirement age for most people is 65 in the US.
But most people seek a second job afterwards because they can't afford to live
on the monthly social security amount. They try to make ends meet but after one
or two years they simply can't. It's only just manageable if you've already
paid your mortgage off. So to get around the 65 mark many of them do part-time jobs
that are paid by commission, or work with families, not companies, or are
employed as part-time consultants, paid fees, not a salary. But it's not easy to find! Post retirement is a very stressful time for Americans.
This working group wasn't such a big deal before, but recently, with the baby boomers coming up for retirement, they're taking up a larger chunk of both the workforce and the economy. So people are being encouraged to save outside in private savings. But of course, with the crisis, those private investments took a hit too. Some of those who took the care to save their own money for when they retired have just seen their assets halved. And to make matters worse, Congress is currently debating increasing the working age because the pensions scheme is going bankrupt.
In Nigeria, retirement doesn't exist except for state employees, which make up 35% of people. Everyone else works until they die. And they actually do better! The ones who retire usually die earlier, after a few years on the state pension - when it does appear - they don't look like what they used to... They try to start a new business like a little store, privately. But they don't tend to succeed because they've never done it before - it's hard to learn new tricks at their age! They're better off doing some community work, getting involved in local decision making. They can make some cash from the state doing that. Nigerians just don't get retirement."Xia Yeliang is a research fellow in economy from China.
Retirement is considered normal in China and the compulsory age is 55
for women and 60 for men. Half of retirees look for another job after retiring.
The others depend on their children, who provide them with a stable income. They
can also get some social security money; the amount varies from city to city.
You get much more in the big cities like Beijing,
Shanghai and Guangzhou. In other places it's nothing. It's
very hard to find a job when you're old, especially in the services sector,
where they look for 18-25-year-olds, and even in management they're looking
for 30-45-year olds." Au Waipang is a businessman from Singapore.
Civil servants have to retire at 62 in Singapore and the private sector is
encouraged to follow similar guidelines, which a lot of people do. There is no
state pension as such; to afford their retirement each citizen is obliged to
pay money into the central provident fund
over their working life. The problem
we are facing now is that this generation's life expectancy is much longer than
it's been before, and the government is worried about these people not saving
enough. If you have penniless people who need medical help or are sleeping on
the street, then it becomes a state problem. So they're encouraging people to
work longer.
The compulsory age has already gone up from 55 in the past ten years and is now becoming 62. There was a lot of resistance at first. It's not just a matter of whether people are willing to carry on - it's whether the companies are willing too. In Asia older people are expected to have senior posts - but at the same time they can't be in such position if they're too old. Singapore needs fresh thinking to understand that people have to step down when they're too old. So the government will encourage companies to provide opportunities for older people, for them to work part time for example."
The good
thing about not having to retire at a certain age is not being classified as a
group where you feel that you are no use. I don't have to retire because
fortunately I am in a job where you are not seen as over the hill at 60, you
are seen as having more and more wisdom and life experience. To stop
working seems like a huge disregard of who you are and what you're capable of,
and the workplace loses that experience. Plus I don't want to retire because I love my job. I think carrying on working
keeps your mind alive; there's so much out there to learn. My husband has no intention
of retiring either. The system in the UK, that allows you to continue
working, is a huge advantage to us, especially as 60 is the new 40! (Life
begins at...). People should certainly not be forced to retire at a certain age. It
has not even hit the brain cells that we could be retired!"
Comments
Keep Going, the old adage your only as old as you feel
Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on Thu, 20/11/2008 - 16:22.Get face lift and keep working. Peace
Unregistered user
Retirement...not for me
Submitted by Christine G. (not verified) on Tue, 18/11/2008 - 21:51.I'll hit the big 60 next July and have just recently found a new full-time position. My Dad, at the age of 85, is still doing consulting work. If I were lucky enough to come into enough money to make my existence easier, I'd still work or find volunteer opportunities to continue to be a vibrant participant in life. I've recently become a grandmother of a beautiful little girl and having her and her mother, my daughter, with us makes my life a JOY everyday. Four generations living under one roof may not be perfect, but it has more wonderful moments than you can imagine.
I have every intention of spoiling my granddaughter to music, art, travel, books, volunteering and being a contributing member to our family and community. Already in her just under 8 months of living she's been to graduations, concerts, family gatherings, to Maine, NYC. I speak to her in French, Spanish, German, a little bit of Polish and we'll explore languages together.
I'll try to instill in her to not be wasteful of our abundance and to leave the earth a better place.
OK...off my soapbox....blessings on your day!
Unregistered user
No one should be forced to retire
Submitted by Jo Ann (not verified) on Tue, 18/11/2008 - 21:17.I'm a 52 years old - If it's true that 60 is the old 40, then 50 is the old 30 and it certainly feels that way to me. My child-bearing years are over, I have a streak of white hair, and I do have a couple of extra 'laugh lines' to show for my age. Other than that I feel stronger and more capable than I ever have in my life. Last year, I took up snow sking - something I haven't done since I was in my 20's. I was very happy to discover that it was a whole lot easier than it was back in the day. (Technology Rocks! - :)
I live in the US and work for a state agency where I will be eligible for a pension before I reach 60. I'm working now writing and updating software applications for the Internet. I plan to use my time from now until retirement to prepare myself for a second career teaching. But, I won't 'have' to retire at that time. When I reach the time that I am eligible for the pension, I will weigh my options. If my workplace and I still have something valuable to offer one another, I will continue.
I really don't understand the concept of 'reaching an age when you are no longer useful' -
Unregistered user
retirerment
Submitted by hazel addlesee (not verified) on Tue, 18/11/2008 - 18:01.your very lucky to be in a job you enjoy not everyone is so lucky plus you will
be on agood wage,I for 1 had jobs that i did not enjoy at all,consiquently i
could not wait to retire,but i did want to train as a hairdresser to go free
lance,but i had to do ass i was told by that other person that is your so called husband,i had so much saved towards the course and asked if i could
borrow from him as he had a little money,but was told he wasnt giving his money
to a mear woman thats from the man your married to for over 30 yrs as you may
have guessed ive never forgiven him and never will,so i live in this unhappy
marrage,but as people say if i leave where do i go and who will want me
not my sons,not anyone
Unregistered user
Barrack Obama
Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on Tue, 18/11/2008 - 15:15.I believe that Barrack will do all that is within his power to restore the U.S.A. from what it had become. All people will have voices again to work together to make this world a better place for all the human race. We as a world must all come together as one for the betterment of mankind and to save the earth from destruction. Our planet is in peril and only we with the help of the almighty GOD can help us if GOD is with us who can be against us.
Keep the FAITH,
Felicia Curtis
Unregistered user
work after 70
Submitted by valorie carroll (not verified) on Tue, 18/11/2008 - 14:07.i believe if a person is able mentally and pysically it would be the best for them to be able to continue to work as long as they can , keeps a person mentally well and keeps the deprssion away
Unregistered user
retirement
Submitted by Unregistered user (not verified) on Tue, 18/11/2008 - 12:34.I just read the above article, however i dont believe that people should be made to retire if they dont want to, but what about the people that want to retire at 55/60 but now because the law had change they have to work till they are 65 pluss.
I dont think it is fare that the retirement age has change it should be that retirement age is 55/60 but you can carryon working if you want to this way the people that want to retire and spend time with there family or travel or do what ever they want to do, they should, that is what we are paying our national insurace and taxes for 40 years pluss.
Unregistered user
Retirement at 65/70
Submitted by Graindesable (not verified) on Mon, 17/11/2008 - 17:58.This is absolutely uncorrect to write that the French people are forced to work until 65 and soon 70. This is just not true. At the moment the legal age of retirement is 60.
The law says that working until 65 or 70 will not be an obligation.
People will be free to choose when to retire.
Unregistered user
They're not forced to work
Submitted by Team Observers on Mon, 17/11/2008 - 18:20.They're not forced to work until 65 and soon 70 - quite the opposite: they are not allowed to work after 65 and soon 70. What the French worry about is that because the age is raised, they will be forced into a situation when they have to work until 70 to make enough money to retire.
Team Observers